LO: Does being part of a film archive at a university change how people might look at your work, like, now you have generations of young students who have been studying from your work?
JW: Well, it’s bizarre because I got thrown out of every school that I ever went to, practically—except for grade school. So they didn’t want me, but it was great that Wesleyan asked to have my film archive. I’ve done three commencement speeches and got an honorary doctorate from RISD and the School of Visual Arts twice. It’s odd. I have always lived on either end of the spectrum, and the middle has always been problematic. And guess what? That’s where I am now—finally!—because the extremes on the left and the right suddenly I rebel against. So I’m a middle of the road radical now.
LO: That seems like it’s kind of a cool place to be.
JW: Yeah, I think so too.
LO: For at least the last decade now, I’ve been seeing Female Trouble pop up as a meme every Christmastime.
JW: Oh, yeah, the Christmas tree thing. The one that pops up the most is Mink [Stole] in Desperate Living—”I hate the Supreme Court,” which she yells out for no apparent reason in the movie, but now, there are plenty of apparent reasons, so it pops up all the time as a meme too.
LO: Have you seen memes change your fanbase or add to your fanbase or how people respond?
JW: My fanbase, if they were the young people, were just my original fanbase, it would be a graveyard. They get younger and younger. That is the only thing you can’t buy, is getting the next generation and having it still work for them. That’s what I’m the most proud of.
LO: That’s an amazing thing. Hairspray was your first movie I saw and I was probably in middle school and now I see kids or young adults getting into it and they could be my kids.
JW: Yeah, that’s true. All the kids that were really on that dance show that I based it on, they’re great-great-grandparents now. It just shows that good music and dancing and comedy is timeless and it works. You can’t plan that. I just try to make movies that made me and my friends laugh. Luckily, other people came along for the ride.
..THE MIDDLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN PROBLEMATIC. AND GUESS WHAT? THAT’S WHERE I AM NOW—FINALLY!—BECAUSE THE EXTREMES ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT SUDDENLY I REBEL AGAINST. SO I’M A MIDDLE OF THE ROAD RADICAL NOW.”
LO: I also enjoy seeing your film lists, the ones that you’ve done for Artforum, and was wondering what you enjoy looking at in films today as a viewer.
JW: Well, I like feel-bad French movies, and full-frontal nudity is my favorite genre, but I like movies that are hard to like. I think that you have to suffer for cinema sometimes and I don’t expect people to like the movies that I pick every year, because they are difficult ones, but I never understand when people say, “I go to movies and I want to feel good.” I feel good anyway. If a movie can make me feel bad, it must really be a powerful movie.
LO: For me, those are like the ones that I can only see once because they’re really amazing movies, but I was so depressed afterwards.
JW: Yeah, you’re not going to get into a costume, go at midnight, sing along, and shout out the dialogue of the characters in Irreversible.
LO: Do you like to keep an eye open for new art and music as well?
JW: I went to a heavy metal concert the other day. It was in all the papers. What’s the news of that? But, yeah, I do go to see new music as much to see the audience and what they’re wearing and how they react, especially in Baltimore, I do it.
LO: What are you listening to these days?
JW: I like all the Baltimore groups. Beach House and Future Islands. Snail Mail. Dan Deacon. There are lots of them. They all stayed in Baltimore, which I think is great.
LO: What are you working on right now?
JW: Well, I’m working on trying to get my next movie made. I can talk about it now that the writer’s strike is over. It’s called Liarmouth and it’s based on my novel that was bought, optioned for a movie. We’ll see what happens. That’s my next big project.
My Christmas tour, which is nineteen cities in twenty-one days.
LO: Have you started the tour already?
JW: No, I just finished writing it this morning. Now, I’ve got three weeks to memorize it.
LO: What do you enjoy about doing the Christmas tours?
JW: I have a fear of not flying. I get to see my audience. It’s like being a politician when you’re in show business. You’ve got to keep circulating. You’ve got to meet the people. You’ve got to tour. You’ve got to see your fans. You’ve got to get the real reaction in public to your sense of humor, so I think that it’s just part of what I do. It’s a big part of the job.
LO: So going back to the exhibition, what was your favorite part of it?
JW: Just walking through it and I’m seeing all the years. I was just as obsessed by doing it when I sent out those puppet show ads for birthday parties when I was twelve years old as I was making my last movie. I was always driven. Thank God, I always knew what I wanted to do, even when most people wouldn’t let me, but my parents were horrified and proud. I think that’s the best way to put it.
LO: Did that help you keep going?
JW: Of course. Subconsciously, it did, but I always had audiences. I never opened to empty theaters. There were always enough crazy people that came. The critics didn’t like it, but in those days, the critics: it was us versus them. It was a whole kind of different atmosphere than today. We used bad reviews. We welcomed them. We used them in the ads. That would never work today. They would be too smart to hand you that ammunition. The critics power is so weakened today. I miss that power. I thought it was much more interesting.*
BELOW: photos from John Waters: Pope of Trash, Academy Museum of Motion Pictures. Photo by: Charles White, JWPictures/©Academy Museum Foundation
This article originally appeared in Hi-Fructose Issue 69 and has been edited slightly for online reading. You can get the full issue in print in Hi-Fructose issue 69 here.
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