interview | phil dunster

jacket. Brunello Cucinelli
shirt + tie. Paul Smith
watch. Gerald Charles

In a car on the way home from the set of ‘How to Train Your Dragon’ is where we find Phil Dunster. Charming, effortlessly funny and quick to laugh, the conversation is one riddled with laughter. We talk about his latest television show ‘Rooster’ for HBO MAX, starring Steve Carell and created by Bill Lawrence and Matt Tarses (both of ‘Scrubs’ fame). Dunster plays Archie, the roguish, narcissistic, Russian Literature professor and son-in-law to Carrell’s Greg.

On paper, Archie is not the most pleasant. He’s conceited, self-centred, but annoyingly still a gentleman… Despite the infidelity. He cheated on his wife, Katie (Charly Clive), with a grad student and subsequently got said grad student pregnant (which leads to a hilarious showdown between Greg and Archie involving a broken bed). If it were anyone else playing Archie, it may not have worked, but Dunster brings a likability to the character that makes it so incredibly hard to dislike.

Despite his flaws, despite the mistakes, Archie is just trying to do the right thing by Katie and Sunny (Lauren Tsai). Stuck between a rock and a hard place, Archie is trying to have his cake and eat it too, Dunster tells us. An impossible feat. And while the show does deal with heavy subject matter, it doesn’t shy away. Instead, ‘Rooster,’ shows us how comedy can be just the tonic to deal with life’s hardships.

Chatting with Schön!, Phil Dunster discusses ‘Rooster,’ working with Steve Carell, an unfortunate incident with a bed on set, putting Jaime Tartt to bed, and so much more.

full look. Paul Smith
opposite
shirt. Oliver Spencer

cardigan. Ami Paris
jacket + trousers. Oliver Spencer
shoes. GRENSON

Before you hopped onto the call, your publicist and I were saying ‘Rooster’ is like a warm hug. I think that’s the best way to describe it. You make it hard to dislike Archie. You toe the line very well between being a respectful douchebag and charming. Can you talk about reading Archie on the page versus making him your own and bringing him to life for us?

First of all, it’s a credit to Bill (Lawrence) and Matt (Tarses), who were very, very much from the start leaning into his humanity. It’s all there on the page. It’s very easy to see that he’s just a sort of reprehensible douchebag. But Matt and Bill were very clear that they wanted to find that Hugh Grant energy that Archie believes he has [laughter], which veers into the smarminess as well.

We see in the first episode that there is, if not accountability, an awareness. The fact that he gets to the end of that conversation with Greg (Steve Carell) and he goes, “I’ve really cocked this up, haven’t I?” He’s aware of the fact that he’s not living in a bubble. I’d argue that he is, but he has moments of clarity. I think that it’s that little kernel that allows us or allows the audience to go, “Oh, okay, well, it’s maybe not so straightforward with him.” You do see time and time again, these little cracks of light come through. You just need to find the right time to lean into it — where he leans into those little opportunities remains to be seen. I think that’s the nice thing: finding the little clues along the way and going, “Oh, okay, there’s one, there’s one,” and then leaning into that. Then follow the writing, wherever it takes you.

I’d say Archie is stuck between a rock and a hard place… and that’s putting it nicely. Sunny (Lauren Tsai) is pregnant, and he obviously cares for her. But he’s still in love with Katie (Charly Clive), clearly. Walk me through his mindset and how he balances the dynamic between these two women?

He’s going through a difficult time. He’s going through a complex time. I appreciate that you can see he’s conflicted. Whether he’s doing his best or not, who knows? It’s a bit of a tightrope, isn’t it? He thinks that it probably can work. [laughs] If I were his mate, I probably wouldn’t suggest it. I think his mindset is that she (Sunny) thinks I’m amazing. Katie is the person that I love, and I respect as a teacher. Listen, I’m sort of thinking out loud here. I don’t know if this is exactly what he would say, but I think fundamentally, he doesn’t see himself as the bad guy. I think that he would probably say, “Well, it’s not fair. I love both of them and they both love me.” Why can’t we make it work?

Red flag.

It would be red flag territory. I love them. They both love me. It’s probably seen as quite self-serving, but really, he’s looking to have his cake and eat it, too. He sees that as being justified.

I also get a hint of him trying to make everybody happy. He’s trying to satisfy everyone and figure out what the best course of action is.

I think he’s trying to make everybody love him. He just thinks that fundamentally, he’s the best. I think up until this point, the world has told him that he is. He’s got a PhD, he’s tenured, and he has won this incredible fellowship. He’s at one of the, what is fictionally, but probably, one of the greatest learning institutions. He’s early thirties, let’s say. He’s married to this incredible person. So, the world has sort of told him, “You should be rewarded for this brilliance.” And rather than approaching with humility, he really leans into deserving this sort of privilege he’s been thrown into, rather than the gratitude of it.

jacket. Brunello Cucinelli
opposite
knit. Hackett
shirt. BOSS
watch. Gerald Charles

full look. BOSS
opposite
full look. Brunello Cucinelli

One of my favourite moments in the first episode is when Greg comes to the house, and they’re having the first confrontation, and they’re bringing attention to the first edition of Tolstoy’s ‘War and Peace,’ and I said to myself, “Oh, that book is not going to survive until the end of the episode.” Then Katie comes over to forgive Archie, and he tells her that Sunny is pregnant, and it goes downhill from there.

What’s funny is the notion of Chekhov’s gun, right? If there’s a gun that’s mentioned, it must be shot. It’s kind of a weird mashup of Chekhov’s gun, but really, it’s Tolstoy’s book, because he gets referenced. You’re like something bad is going to happen to that book. I don’t know what it is, but something bad’s going to happen.

I did not anticipate the house being collateral damage.

I don’t think anybody did. That’s super great insight. It’s Bill’s thought as well — that you get really human and messy. It’s sort of encapsulated in what you said. Really human experiences and mad responses. You can really relate to it. You go, “God, I’ve been in that situation, or I can really imagine that happening.” But then the thing that’s good about Bill is he ratchets up the response ever so slightly.

You see it as well with Dylan (Danielle Deadwyler) in the first episode, where she’s been turned down twice. Instead of jimmying the door open, she just loses her mind. She smashes the window with a rock, and you’re like, “What an insane way to respond to a normal, human experience.” But that’s why I think people really enjoy his (Bill Lawrence) work because you’re like, “I wanted to do that. I’ve never smashed the window to get away from someone.” But you understand the feeling.

Another scene that stuck out to me was when Greg finds out about Sunny and he (quite literally) crashes Archie’s BBC interview. You two actually broke the bed, correct?

We did, yeah.

Was it insured?

[laughs] That’s a great question. I never asked the bed if it was okay. I feel bad about that. There was a lot of vim and a lot of vigour that was put into that. Any stunt performer will always be like, “Smooth is fast and fast is too fast.” I think Steve and I were just like, “This is really funny. This could be so silly.” And we just got excited, and we just went for it. It’s a really great example of Steve being, “If the thing’s funny, I love it.” Whatever it is, he just loves it. He loves making people laugh. He loves laughing himself. The moment it happened, we were both like, “Oh shit.” It wasn’t on my bucket list to fight Steve Carell in my boxer shorts, but it’s now somehow been ticked off. It was a great honour to wrestle with him.

The chemistry among the cast is so palpable, and it really does translate on the screen. Can you touch on your time filming? Do you have a particular memory that sticks out to you?

I was a bit of a fish out of water. I’d never spent that long in LA before. I think the same with Charly. She’d lived in America before, but I don’t think she lived in LA. The two of us were thick as thieves over there. We took a road trip up to Stockton, which was about a day and a half drive with stops on the way. We drove up with her boyfriend, Sam, and it was such a great time. We stopped off at vineyards, stopped off at barbecue joints and went for lovely walks. 

One of the things that production had asked us if we could do was basically get shots of Archie and Katie for set dressing. So, photos of the two of us on holiday, photos of the two of us at dinner or whatever. Poor Sam was charged with going to these lovely places and then taking photos of his girlfriend, Charly, with me wrapping my arms around her and us pretending to be on a date [laughter]. He was a very, very good sport. I give full praise to Sam. Handing those photos over felt like quite a betrayal to Sam.

Moving from ‘Rooster’ for just a moment, I’m curious, you’ve been on television, film and stage, do you have a preference?

My preference is whatever I’m not doing at that point. You’re on stage, you’re like, “Oh, I wish I was doing TV.” The boring answer is: I love getting to do all three. There was a period there where I wasn’t doing much theatre, and I really, really missed it. I love it so much. I love the creative process of being in a room with people that you can reach out and touch, and the thing exists between you and them. You present it to people who are in a room, ready to go on this evening of pretend. There’s something quite magical about a load of adults doing that, which I really love.

Getting to do that on a larger scale, like ‘How to Train Your Dragon.’ Something Steve said when we were doing press for ‘Rooster’ is, “Kindness is not weakness, it is strength.” You see that with Dean DeBlois, who directed all of the animated movies and the first live-action film, every day. It’s a special thing. He’s a great leader in that he defers to people in different departments. I think it’s a cool thing to feel like you’re on this behemoth of a film, but actually, it feels very personal, and it feels like you have input. I hope that a lot of people working on it will feel they’ve got input in some way, shape or form. It’s really about the people that you’re working with. I think that a lot of performers have probably worked in various formats. And if it’s not the right concoction of people, then I think it’s harder to have a good time.

I saw a quote today on Instagram that said, “Acting is a team sport.” You all have to work collectively to get this thing made. If one part doesn’t work, the rest falls apart. It’s one of the very few art forms that you can’t do without other people present.

You can rehearse lines, but it requires an audience, which is why we’re all big attention seekers [laughs], because you have to have an audience to do your job. I think there’s something in that.

knit. Brunello Cucinelli
denim. AMI Paris

What has acting taught you about yourself?

That it’s so much easier to say words that people have written down on a page for you and then stand where someone’s told you to stand. You don’t have to think for yourself. They just say, “Stand there, say that, don’t hit the furniture,” and it’s great. What has it taught me? I think watching other actors who are really, really good, the actors that I think are really, really good are not necessarily the people who spend the most time pontificating, figuring out exactly what it is they want to do, how they want to say it. That stuff’s really important. Don’t get me wrong. If that’s someone’s process, that’s someone’s process. That’s awesome.

But I think that genuinely the people I go, “Oh, you’re really good at acting,” are the people who are willing to be part of a team, go, “Right, speak to the director, speak to producers, understand what it is we’re trying to do here and how can I help? How can I communicate with the people around me?” There’s a humility that comes with that, which I think is really invaluable. Gosh, that’s maybe a bit of an earnest response. It’s taught me that the thing I want to do most is be in a room full of people, perform and be applauded at the end of it. It’s mad, isn’t it? Imagine any other line of work where you bow at the end of a shift.

What character has been the most relatable, and who has been the most far removed from yourself?

I did a play last year called ‘Brace Brace,’ which was based on a true story about a couple who survived a plane hijacking and about the life they had leading up to that, and the shared, diverging ways that they dealt with it. The plane hijacking is probably not particularly relatable, but I think within it, you have two people and its obstacles and difficulties and people clinging onto each other like life rafts, and they just can’t. It’s about finding a way to communicate. It doesn’t have to be something quite so traumatic as a plane hijacking. I think that life can be so complicated in its very modality; it can be very difficult to really feel seen and heard. Anjana (Vasan) and I played the couple. Dan Raggett, our director, said before each show, “You’re going to make them understand tonight.” They were just two people who loved each other and were trying to communicate. So that felt very relatable.

Whilst Jamie was quite ludicrous and flamboyant, I think he wanted to be loved, and we saw that near the end, but he didn’t quite understand how to ask for it. I think that’s still relatable. Even left in this sort of gladiatorial world of being a professional footballer. Quinn is probably the least relatable. The heir apparent to this finance empire and his life was everything in excess. And then all of the privilege was untapped. That’s really the thing that catches him out. He believes he’ll get away with anything because he always has. So why wouldn’t he?

Is there a line, a piece of dialogue, or a statement from any of them that has stuck with you?

“It’s just poopeh.” It’s stuck with me, or rather follows me, in a really wonderful way.

I’d be remiss, obviously, if I didn’t at least touch on ‘Ted Lasso.’ What was the hardest thing about leaving Jamie Tartt behind in 2023?

Whilst it was the end of the three-season arc, and it made sense to put that to bed within the realms of the show, it really felt like he had just begun. His journey of enacting the lessons he’d learned. He’s still the same person. I don’t think that’s changed. He’s better at making decisions. He can go on maintaining his sense of kind of preening, superstar quality, whilst also using his powers for good in a way. I just miss the people who we made the show. I loved it. My wife is directing this new season, which is incredible, so I still get to be around it.

You visited the set recently, no?

Yeah! It was nice to be back and just hang out behind the scenes. It felt a little bit encroaching. I was like, “I know I shouldn’t be here,” but I just love it so much. It was amazing to see this world that I’ve known so well for the last few years and see Ellie (Heydon) taking the reins. She’s so great. It’s really exciting as well, as the new season is picking up. It’s shifting a fair bit, but the spirit of it is very much in keeping with where it was before.

If you could sit Archie down and have a conversation with him as yourself, what advice would you give?

Keep doing everything you’re doing. I think it’s probably great. I don’t see a problem here. [laughter] I think it would have to be to try. Try to take some responsibility, see what happens. Just try saying “sorry” and see what happens. And also, maybe, try not to wear so much tweed.

knit. Hackett
shirt. Boss
trousers. Oliver Spencer
watch. Gerald Charles
opposite
full look. BOSS

‘Rooster’ is airing now.

photography. Adam James Richardson
fashion. Kyle Scott Lawson
talent. Phil Dunster
casting. Emma Fleming
grooming. Sandra Hahnel @ Caren Agency using OUAI
production. Clara La Rosa
photography assistant. Stefan Ebelewicz
fashion assistant. Hannah Shaw
location. Hart Shoredich
interview. Dana Reboe